tor-dev August 2019

tor-dev@lists.torproject.org

19 participants
13 discussions

the consequences of deprecating debian alpha repos with every new major branch
by nusenu 21 Dec '21

21 Dec '21

Hi, tldr: - more outdated relays (that is a claim I'm making and you could easily proof me wrong by recreating the 0.3.3.x alpha repos and ship 0.3.3.7 in them and see how things evolve after a week or so) - more work for the tpo website maintainer - less happy relay operators [3][4] - more work for repo maintainers? (since a new repo needs to be created) When the tor 0.3.4 alpha repos (deb.torproject.org) first appeared on 2018-05-23 I was about to submit a PR for the website to include it in the sources.list generator [1] on tpo but didn't do it because I wanted to wait for a previous PR to be merged first. The outstanding PR got merged eventually (2018-06-28) but I still did not submit a PR to update the repo generator for 0.3.4.x nonetheless and here is why. Recently I was wondering why are there so many relays running tor version 0.3.3.5-rc? (see OrNetStats or Relay Search) (> 3.2% CW fraction) Then I realized that this was the last version the tor-experimental-0.3.3.x-* repos were shipping before they got abandoned due to the new 0.3.4.x-* repos (I can no longer verify it since they got removed by now). Peter made it clear in the past that the current way to have per-major-version debian alpha repos (i.e. tor-experimental-0.3.4.x-jessie) will not change [2]: > If you can't be bothered to change your sources.list once or twice a > year, then you probably should be running stable. but maybe someone else would be willing to invoke a "ln" commands everytime a new new alpha repo is born. tor-alpha-jessie -> tor-experimental-0.3.4.x-jessie once 0.3.5.x repos are created the link would point to tor-alpha-jessie -> tor-experimental-0.3.5.x-jessie It is my opinion that this will help reduce the amount of relays running outdated versions of tor. It will certainly avoid having to update the tpo website, which isn't a big task and could probably be automated but it isn't done currently. "..but that would cause relay operators to jump from i.e. 0.3.3.x to 0.3.4.x alphas (and break setups)!" Yes, and I think that is better than relays stuck on an older version because the former repo no longer exists and operators still can choose the old repos which will not jump to newer major versions. [1] https://www.torproject.org/docs/debian.html.en#ubuntu [2] https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/14997#comment:3 [3] https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2018-June/015549.html [4] https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/26474 -- https://twitter.com/nusenu_ https://mastodon.social/@nusenu

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tor relay process health data for operators (controlport)
by nusenu 16 Nov '20

16 Nov '20

Hi, every now and then I'm in contact with relay operators about the "health" of their relays. Following these 1:1 discussions and the discussion on tor-relays@ I'd like to rise two issues with you (the developers) with the goal to help improve relay operations and end user experience in the long term: 1) DNS (exits only) 2) tor relay health data 1) DNS ------ Current situation: Arthur Edelstein provides public measurements to tor exit relay operators via his page at: https://arthuredelstein.net/exits/ This page is updated once daily. the process to use that data looks like this: - first they watch Arthur's measurement results - if their failure rate is non-zero they try to tweak/improve/change their setup - wait for another 24 hours (next measurement) This is a somewhat suboptimal and slow feedback loop and is probably also less accurate and less valuable data when compared to the data the tor process can provide. Suggestion for improvement: Exposes the following DNS status information via tor's controlport to help debug and detect DNS issues on exit relays: (total numbers since startup) - amount of DNS queries send to the resolver - amount of DNS queries send to the resolver due to a RESOLVE request - DNS queries send to resolver due to a reverse RESOLVE request - amount of queries that did not result in any answer from the resolver - breakdown of number of responses by response code (RCODE) https://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-parameters/dns-parameters.xhtml#dns-pa… - max amount of DNS queries send per curcuit If this causes a significant performance impact this feature should be disabled by default. 2) general relay health metrics -------------------------------- Compared to other server daemons (webserver, DNS server, ..) tor provides little data for operators to detect operational issues and anomalies. I'd suggest to provide the following stats via the control port: (most of them are already written to logfiles by default but not accessible via the controlport as far as I've seen) - total amount of memory used by the tor process - amount of currently open circuits - circuit handshake stats (TAP / NTor) DoS mitigation stats - amount of circuits killed with too many cells - amount of circuits rejected - marked addresses - amount of connections closed - amount of single hop clients refused - amount of closed/failed circuits broken down by their reason value https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/tor-spec.txt#n1402 https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/control-spec.txt#n1994 - amount of closed/failed OR connections broken down by their reason value https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/control-spec.txt#n2205 If this causes a significant performance impact this feature should be disabled by default. cell stats - extra info cell stats as defined in: https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/dir-spec.txt#n1072 This data should be useful to answer the following questions: - High level questions: Is the tor relay healthy? - is it hitting any resource limits? - is the tor process under unusual load? - why is tor using more memory? - is it slower than usual at handling circuits? - can the DNS resolver handle the amount of DNS queries tor is sending it? This data could help prevent errors from occurring or provide additional data when trying to narrow down issues. When it comes to the question: **Is it "safe" to make this data accessible via the controlport?** I assume it is safe for all information that current versions of tor writes to logfiles or even publishes as part of its extra info descriptor. Should tor provide this or similar data I'm planing to write scripts for operators to make use of that data (for example a munin plugin that connects to tor's controlport). I'm happy to help write updates for control-spec should these features seem reasonable to you. Looking forward to hearing your feedback. nusenu -- https://twitter.com/nusenu_ https://mastodon.social/@nusenu

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DNS-over-HTTPS (DOH) in Firefox/Torbrowser
by nusenu 01 Jul '20

01 Jul '20

Hi, since Mozilla did tests [0] on DOH [1] in Firefox I was wondering if Torbrowser developers have put any thought into that as well? Note: I'm _not_ suggesting to use DOH in torbrowser I'm just asking because the answer probably matters for exit documentation in the relay guide if clients do DNS themselves over TCP connections instead of relying on the exit (even if torbrowser is not the only tor client). thanks, nusenu [0] https://www.ghacks.net/2018/03/20/firefox-dns-over-https-and-a-worrying-shi… [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hoffman-dns-over-https/ -- https://mastodon.social/@nusenu twitter: @nusenu_

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Lets give every circuit its own exit IP?
by nusenu 18 Mar '20

18 Mar '20

The unbearable situation with Google's reCAPTCHA motivated this email (but it is not limited to this specific case). This idea came up when seeing a similar functionality in unbound (which has it for a different reason). Assumption: There are systems that block some tor exit IP addresses (most likely the bigger once), but they are not blocked due to the fact that they are tor exits. It just occurred that the IP got flagged because of "automated / malicious" requests and IP reputation systems. What if every circuit had its "own" IP address at the exit relay to avoid causing collateral damage to all users of the exit if one was bad? (until the exit runs out of IPs and starts to recycle previously used IPs again) The goal is to avoid accumulating a bad "reputation" for the single used exit IP address that affects all tor users of that exit. Instead of doing it on the circuit level you could do it based on time. Change the exit IP every 5 minutes (but do _not_ change the exit IPs for _existing_ circuits even if they live longer than 5 minutes). Yes, no one has that many IPv4 addresses but with the increasing availability of IPv6 at exits and destinations, this could be feasible to a certain extend, depending on how many IPv6 addresses the exit operator has. There are exit operators that have entire /48 IPv6 blocks. problems: - will not solve anything since reputation will shift to netblocks as well (How big of a netblock are you willing to block?) - you can tell two tor users easily apart from each other even if they use the same exit (or more generally: you can tell circuits apart). There might be all kinds of bad implications that I'm not thinking off right now. - check.tpo would no longer be feasible - how can do we still provide the list of exit IPs for easy blocking? Exits could signal their used netblock via their descriptor. What if they don't? (that in turn opens new kinds of attacks where an exit claims to be /0 and the target effectively blocks everything) - more state to track and store at the exit -... some random thoughts, nusenu -- https://mastodon.social/@nusenu twitter: @nusenu_

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Optimistic SOCKS Data
by Tom Ritter 15 Oct '19

15 Oct '19

The attached is a draft proposal for allowing tor to lie to an application about the SOCKS connection enabling it to send data optimistically. It's going to need some fleshing out in ways I am not familiar with, but I wanted to get something out to start as we think that this is probably the best path forward for bringing back Tor Browser's optimistic SOCKS behavior. -tom

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New Proposal 306: A Tor Implementation of IPv6 Happy Eyeballs
by neel＠neelc.org 06 Sep '19

06 Sep '19

Hi tor-dev@ mailing list, I have a new proposal: A Tor Implementation of IPv6 Happy Eyeballs This is to implement Tor IPv6 Happy Eyeballs and acts as an alternative to Prop299 as requested here: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/29801 The GitHub pull request is here: https://github.com/torproject/torspec/pull/87 Thank You, Neel Chauhan === https://www.neelc.org/

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Re: [tor-dev] Q: Links to external apps
by LA_FORGE 29 Aug '19

29 Aug '19

Thanks. I tried that already and also completely uninstalling the NoScript Addon and moved the security slider of TB to the lowest level but it doesn't work :( ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Thursday, August 29, 2019 5:12 AM, Kaizu Shibata <kaizushi(a)cock.li> wrote: > Try turning on Javascript. > > LA_FORGE: > > > Hi, > > I love Tor Browser very much. So much that I just created a separate TB instance for local Intranet browsing. Everything is working fine but I just got a question related to links to other/external applications such as vmrc://192.168.76.224/?moid=36 > > It's from the VMware ESXi Webclient. I just set up a handler at 'Applications' in TBs Options and made it permanent: > > [TB_Applications.png] > > but it doesn't work :( the external application won't start :( Does TB have a protection against those links to external applications? If so. is there a way to turn it off? > > Thanks in advance > > Greetings > > LA_FORGE > > > > tor-dev mailing list > > tor-dev(a)lists.torproject.org > > https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-dev > > -- > > Owner of Kaizushi's Little Onion Server and Infantile. > > http://kaizushigdv5mrnz.onion/ > http://infantilefb6ovh4.onion/ > > Main email: kaizushi(a)infantile.us > Others: kaizushi(a)infantile.xyz kaizushi(a)cock.li kaizushi(a)secmail.pro

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Q: Links to external apps
by LA_FORGE 28 Aug '19

28 Aug '19

Hi, I love Tor Browser very much. So much that I just created a separate TB instance for local Intranet browsing. Everything is working fine but I just got a question related to links to other/external applications such as vmrc://192.168.76.224/?moid=36 It's from the VMware ESXi Webclient. I just set up a handler at 'Applications' in TBs Options and made it permanent: [TB_Applications.png] but it doesn't work :( the external application won't start :( Does TB have a protection against those links to external applications? If so. is there a way to turn it off? Thanks in advance Greetings LA_FORGE

1 0

Putting onion services behind a third-party TCP proxy
by Pop Chunhapanya 27 Aug '19

27 Aug '19

Hi all, When deploying an onion service, I noticed some problem that the ip address of my machine that runs tor daemon is exposed to the Tor network which is vulnerable to the DDoS attack if someone knows my ip address. So I'm thinking putting the tor daemon behind some third party TCP proxy that will protect me from this kind of DDoS attack. What do you think if I want to implement a feature that forward all the onion service traffic to the TCP proxy before going to the Tor network? The protocol that I'm thinking is TCP Proxy Protocol [1] [1] https://www.haproxy.org/download/1.8/doc/proxy-protocol.txt

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Enhanced Tor Browser sandboxing upstreaming
by procmem＠riseup.net 24 Aug '19

24 Aug '19

Hi. We aim to make enhanced sandboxing for Tor Browser widely available on Linux that's well maintained in the long term. We would appreciate it if TBB team provides the currently developed Apparmor and firejail profiles below from your repos and run unit testing and check/fix any breakages with updated browser versions. It turns out there is an advantage to stacking both Apparmor and Firejail. Firejail doesn’t offer nearly as good file path whitelisting as AppArmor. Firejail also can’t do many things AppArmor can such as managing ptrace or signals, yet firejail can use xpra to isolate Tor Browser's access to X, pulseaudio and the clipboard. The Firejail package included in Debian stable cannot keep pace with the needed changes as Tor Browser continues to change. Stacking is also a good defense in depth. If there’s a vulnerability in Firejail then AppArmor will still restrict the application or vice versa. Firejail provides a maintained official profile for Tor Browser [0]. We have a Apparmor profile that we've maintained for years [1]. [0] https://github.com/netblue30/firejail/blob/master/etc/start-tor-browser.pro… [1] https://github.com/Whonix/apparmor-profile-torbrowser

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tor-dev August 2019