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Hi,
I like prop242 [1] because it doesn't "Nuke MyFamily" [2] but replaces it with a better approach. "Better" in terms of scalability and maintainability.
I don't know of any current 'tools' (except the tor client itself) that use MyFamily data but Virgil's [3] gamification website and compass group-by family feature [4] would depend on it.
So before spending time on features that depends on an uncertain descriptor field, it is probably better to wait till the fate of that property (MyFamily) has been decided.
The reason for this email is to find out when that fate will be decided upon? (expected answer: before tor 0.2.7.x-final is released)
Nick's statement:
Having some paths with all three nodes in the same family scares me
gives me some hope that it won't go away completely and will allow me to group relays to an operator (as long as the operator decides to configure it).
Even in the unlikely event of MyFamily being nuked completely (with no replacement) - I guess it will be some years(?) till you deprecate pre tor 0.2.7 clients?
[1] https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6676 [2] https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/proposals/242-better-families... [3] https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2014-June/006975.html [4] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nusenu/misc-files/master/biggest_tor_relay...
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Nusenu nusenu@openmailbox.org wrote:
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Hi,
I like prop242 [1] because it doesn't "Nuke MyFamily" [2] but replaces it with a better approach. "Better" in terms of scalability and maintainability.
I don't know of any current 'tools' (except the tor client itself) that use MyFamily data but Virgil's [3] gamification website and compass group-by family feature [4] would depend on it.
So before spending time on features that depends on an uncertain descriptor field, it is probably better to wait till the fate of that property (MyFamily) has been decided.
The reason for this email is to find out when that fate will be decided upon? (expected answer: before tor 0.2.7.x-final is released)
I don't know that we have a date here, or a consensus that it ought to be done. Whether any changes happen in 0.2.7 here is going to depend on whether we've got a solid answer one way or another on the question of MyFamily.
So, what do we think? I'd say that MyFamily is likely to continue to serve a useful purpose, and that removing it entirely would be premature given how often people come up with fun new routing and path selection and guard selection ideas.
On the other hand, prop242 is a fair bit of work to do, and I don't know whether it will rise to a high enough priority over all the other stuff we need to do. And who knows, maybe somebody will come up with a solid argument in favor of removing MyFamily entirely? It's worth thinking about.
yrs,
So, what do we think? I'd say that MyFamily is likely to continue to
"Virgil's gamification site" needs a MyFamily, ergo I am in favor of keeping MyFamily, whether it be in the current, prop242, or alternative form. Obviously the prop242 form is a much better rendition of MyFamily, but unless we acquire an external entity that is explicitly funding the gamification site I argue there are more important things to be doing.
-V
So, what do we think? I'd say that MyFamily is likely to continue to
MyFamily is also critical for people who are running a lot of relays. It's ideal to list keys, but in a scenario where I run two dozen relays or more, having a good shorthand for them would make it easier to group them.
~Griffin
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Griffin Boyce -
Nick Mathewson -
Nusenu -
Virgil Griffith